“If it doesn't leave a community footprint, it's meaningless”.”
Interview with the co-comitance's principals, Legado Cuidado, the Asociación de Amigas/os del Parque del Pasatiempo and the Asociación Roxin Roxal.
The concomitance, located in the Galician town of Betanzos (A Coruña), works hand in hand with the mediator, Fran Quiroga, and their principals, Association of Friends of the Pasatiempo Park and Roxin Roxal Association, to care for something as intangible and key to a community as its heritage. In this interview they highlight their love for their environment, their commitment to the project and a long road ahead, in which they will seek to continue to come together around the commitment to care for the work of art.
What do you do and what is your link with Betanzos?
ANGEL ARCAY: I am betanceiro, I am living in Betanzos again after twelve years in Santiago de Compostela, I always lived in Galicia or Portugal. I work in many things in this precarious life, I am currently a tourism technician in Vimianzo Town Council on the Costa da Morte, I recently set up a guided tour service here in Betanzos with a colleague and I would like to focus on the world of archives, which is what I studied for and what I have worked in most of my life.
ALICIA PARDO AND MIGUEL CARNOTA: We live in the Mariñas region, near Betanzos, in Paderne, and it was by chance. We were looking for a house in a village and this opportunity came up. We are not natives from there, but we liked the area. We are teachers and we worked in the area. I (Alicia) in Bergondo and I (Miguel) in Pontedeume.
«It's almost village life, we all know each other, which has its good and bad sides. I started with the Pasatiempo theme as a rebound, with the association we have been working for three years now, there are people who are in favour of what you do and others who are against, so you play with your reputation a bit».»
Betanzos has around 12,000 inhabitants, a spectacular historic centre and is the capital of the region. What is daily life like there?
MCWell, like in any other town, I suppose. The betanceiros complain about the same issues as those in other similar towns, that if everyone knows you... It is a comfortable place, with services, pleasant; but with a very poor state of conservation of the heritage, not only the park but the historic centre itself, and it is a shame because it is a beautiful city.
AP: It has a good geographical and scenic location, the estuary, for example. Although the poor rail connection with the city of A Coruña or Ferrol is regrettable. It is a beautiful town, but the historic centre is decrepit.
What does the Pasatiempo Park represent for you?
A: Maybe I don't have that romantic theme that many people have, but I do remember going there a couple of times in the 90s when it was restored. Then it became one more place in Betanzos, maybe because of the caves it has, we took advantage of it to go with friends to do a bit of messing around. In fact, the association was started by a guy from Coruña, who spent four years compiling information about the park in a blog. I got really hooked by the fact that the park was practically unknown and, as a result of that, a group of people got together and started to make the project more interesting.
Both the Pastime Park Association and the Roxin Roxal Association work for heritage, right?
A: From the Pasatiempo Association we have focused on reaching, above all, younger people. We have carried out campaigns on social networks aimed at getting the people of Betanzos to identify and understand this place, sometimes going over the line but with the aim of attracting attention.
«Roxin Roxal is an association that was created in 2005 to promote the tangible and intangible heritage of the region, to organise ourselves in the defence of Galician culture and language. We wanted citizens to become involved in the experience of heritage, to enjoy it, to value it».»
What is the purpose of your association and what are the main milestones that have marked its journey?
A: What triggered it all was a collapse in the Pasatiempo, which aroused social awareness because the town council kept it secret for several days and there was quite a lot of press coverage. Then a meeting was organised in the village bookshop, which was a bit tense. That same day, we decided to apply for the BIC, the association was born a couple of months later to try to get it restored and to actively promote it so that people would start to respect it. The park can be seen from many points of view, more educational and historical, art or architecture, so we also organised working groups in which everyone tried to explain the park from their own point of view.
MC: The main milestone is the daily work, the continuity and the routes we do, which are very successful.
AP: It's all year round, it's a very immense continuum. It is a very global work, we try to ensure that each route contains all aspects, getting to know life, past and present, a vital and global approach to heritage, not only the resource but also getting to know how the local people live it. This is what sets us apart. On average, around 100 people take part in the routes, but now with this situation everything is more complex.
Have you done any public activities with the community?
A: There were some very cool moments, such as the Indian pilgrimage, which was more successful than we expected, and since the 125th anniversary of the park, we have been doing guided tours with groups. We applied for BIC status in March 2017 and, in October 2018, there was a second landslide that closed the park and that cut off the flow of activities, at a time when we were reaching a lot of people. With the pandemic, we were forced to withdraw and stay at home, so we invested the time in organising all the information we had and put out a book with the history of the park. In February 2020 we got the BIC.
AP and MC: We are a socio-educational association and we are part of networks such as the Rede do Rural, Vía Galega, Fundación Galiza Cultura and the Rede polo Patrimonio Cultural and Platform such as Salvemos O Iribio, in the face of the wind farm offensive, in fact we organised a round table on this abuse, here you can watch the video of the day. And among the milestones, apart from the trip to Ireland or the development of the powerful archive web, The promotion of audiovisual production, through the podcasts. In fact Fran, you opened the recording studio.
FRAN QUIROGA: I like radio very much.
How did you get the opportunity to join Concomitentes?
A: I knew Fran, our mediator, from other things and I remember the day he called me to raise the issue. I know that the project has worked internationally, but I was always a bit pessimistic about its application in Betanzos. In fact, today, I feel the same way, although I am more hopeful. There is little institutional support, we depend on the city council, because the park is municipal. We are taking steps, but it is very complicated. It's a job that can give added value to everything we've been doing over the years, if it's well explained, we can achieve good repercussions. As in the first activity we did with Concomitentes where people from MUSAC and people who talked about other related projects came. If half of what was said on that day is done, I'd be happy.
AP and MC: Starting with a boy called Panchi, sometimes Fran.
«There are many ways of approaching the Pasatiempo, so the way of approaching it is also totally different. There are people who visit it as an open-air classroom, as a heritage resource, but it is a way of being able to unite the discourse left to us by the García Naveira brothers, who emigrated, made their fortune and decided to do all these works in Betanzos, apart from the park. Understanding the Pasatiempo also allows you to understand what they did in Betanzos, which also links us with the rest of Europe at the time. The Pasatiempo is a heritage resource, more cosmopolitan that allows us to access another public, a different type of heritage that is different from the traditional and unique in the world. It is something that makes us unique, that's why I think people are starting to value it more and more, at least young people, but not the city council or public officials».»
What is the concept of heritage and legacy for you?
AP and MC: Heritage is what past generations have passed on to us in many ways. We have a responsibility, we want to know and recognise the values of the past with a commitment to pass them on. But it is becoming increasingly difficult, we are a country that suffered colonisation and the ravaging of its past, its origins and its roots, and very little remains in minimally adequate condition. We live this with a certain urgency, we cannot delay in saving the little that is left. We are a disconnected and uneducated generation. It is a double challenge: to save it and to pass it on.
How can art help you to care for and take responsibility for these roots?
A: Art may be what unites the whole heritage of Betanzos with the Pasatiempo. The original park was 90,000 square metres and today only one seventh of what it was is left. One of the actions that is being considered is, in the part that has disappeared, to do something that has nothing to do with the original Pasatiempo but that will lead people to think about why it is there. The art would function as a door to the past or to what is under our feet and what we can no longer see.
«That things can be done, independently of the artistic work that is done, just because of the link that is created between people. That's why the process is key, because art can collaborate in weaving networks, putting collaboration into practice».»
This project brings together a large part of your neighbourhood community, how has this process of collective exchange been? What main conclusions would you draw?
A: The pandemic made everything more complex, and made people disengage. The times we have done activities, such as the Wine of the Country or the Dialogue Walk, worked very well, but in such a small place it is difficult to keep people involved. To achieve what we want to do in the lower part of the park, we need a lot more mobilisation, more explanation of what we want to do. Even if it appears in the press, people don't really understand what it is to make a work of art. The aim of this awareness-raising work is to ensure that the work is not seen as a “stuck-on annexe”, but as another part of the legacy of the García Naveira family, in this case, passed on by the neighbours themselves.
AP and MC: The project gave the opportunity to meet people like the Asociación de Amigas/os del Parque del Pasatiempo or the traditional music group Pesquedellas. In fact, thanks to the project, we met people with whom we are promoting a node of the Rede do Rural in Betanzos. We need more meeting places, it can't be that we didn't know each other before. We need to be more united.
Once the project is finished, what would you like it to look like? How do you see the responsibility for the care of the work?
A: The work that has been talked about is an intervention on the outskirts of the Pasatiempo, that is going to require future care that will depend on us and on the administrations, and we cannot put our hand in the fire for these people. I would like people to remember how the whole process was experienced together, but above all I would like people who, even if they did not participate in the whole process, to come down to the Pasatiempo and know that this work is a community work and that it is part of the park. We are also going to have to explain why we are encouraging people to spend money on a work of contemporary art when the park is in ruins and is not open to the public.
AP and MC: That it should be a perpetual work and that the way it is managed, the spirit of collective management, should last. Often the maintenance of what you do is more important than the work itself. We will have to give life to the work and allow us to continue to be linked, so that the maintenance can continue to maintain the link between people. In fact, for me (AP) would be the deep meaning of the project; if it was a one-off project that left no human, social or community mark, it would be meaningless. It is important that the neighbours feel a bond with the work and from there will come the commitment to take care of it and the demand for maintenance, if an administration finally takes charge of the resulting work.
«Se non deixa pegada na comunidade, no tería sentido».»
The concomitance located in Betanzos, works with the mediator, Fran Quiroga, and its partners, the Association of Friends of the Parque do Pasatiempo and the Roxin Roxal Association, in the care of something so intanxible and key for a community as its heritage. In this interview they discover their love for their environment, their commitment to the project and a long way to go, in which they will seek to continue together around the commitment to care for the work of art resulting from the project.
What are you addicted to and what is your relationship with Betanzos?
ANGEL ARCAY: They are betanceiro, I am living again in Betanzos after twelve years in Santiago de Compostela, I always lived in Galicia or Portugal. I work in many things in this precarious life, at present I am a tourism technician in the Council of Vimianzo in Costa da Morte, recently I set up a service of guided tours with a colleague here in Betanzos and I would like to orient myself to the world of the archives, which is what I studied for and what I have always worked in.
ALICIA PARDO and MIGUEL CARNOTA: We live in the Mariñas region, near Betanzos, in Paderne and it was by chance. We were looking for a house in a village and found this opportunity. We are not natives from there, but we like the area. We are teachers and we work in the area. I (Alicia) in Bergondo and I (Miguel) in Pontedeume.
Betanzos has around 12,000 inhabitants, a spectacular historic centre and is the capital of the region. What is daily life like there?
A: It is almost a village life, we all know each other, which has its good side and its bad side. On the subject of heritage, I started with Pasatempo a bit of a rebound, we have been working with the association for three years now, there are people who are in favour of what you do and others against, so you play with your reputation a bit.
MCBen, as in any other town, I knew. The betanceiros complain about the same problems as in other similar towns, that if everyone knows you... It is a comfortable place, with services, pleasant; but with a very poor state of conservation of the heritage, not only the park but the historic centre itself and it is a shame because it is a beautiful city.
AP: It has a good geographic and scenic location, the estuary, for example. However, the poor rail connection with the city of Coruña or Ferrol is regrettable. It is a beautiful city, but the old part of the city is decrepit.
What does Parque do Pasatempo represent for you?
A: Maybe it doesn't have that romantic theme that many people have, of new memories, I remember going there a couple of times in the 90s when it was restored. Later it became another place in Betanzos, maybe because of the caves it has, and we took advantage of it to go there with friends to play. In fact, the theme of the association comes from a young man from Coruña, who has been collecting information about the park in a blog for four years. I was very impressed by the fact that the park was so unknown, and as a result of this, a group of people got together and started to make the project more interesting.
Both the Parque do Pasatiempo Association and the Roxin Roxal Association work for heritage, don't they?
A: From the association we focus on reaching out, above all, to new people. We carry out campaigns in social networks designed for the betanceiros to identify and understand this place, sometimes we cross the line a little but the goal was to draw attention to it.
AP and MC: Roxin Roxal is an association that was founded in 2005 to value the tangible and intangible heritage of the Mariñas, to organise ourselves in defence of culture and the Galician language. We wanted the citizens to get involved in the experience of heritage, to enjoy it, to value it.
With what objective was your association born and what are the main milestones that marked its journey?
A: O que desencadeou todo foi un colapso ocorrido no Pasatempo, que esperta conciencia social porque o concello o mantivo en segredo durante varios días e houbo moito rebote na prensa. Afterwards, a somewhat tense meeting was organised in the city's library. That same day we decided to apply for the BIC, the association was born a couple of months later to seek the restoration and make an active diffusion so that people start to respect it. The park can be seen from many more educational and historical points of view; art or architecture, so we also organised work groups in which everyone tried to explain the park from their own point of view.
MC: The main success is the work we do together, the continuity and the tours we do, which are very successful.
AP: It is all year round, it is a very immense continuum. It is a very global work, we try that each route contains all the aspects, to know the life, the past and the present, a vital and global approach to the patrimony, not only to the resource but also to know how the inhabitants of the area live it. This is what makes us different. An average of more than 100 people take part in our tours, but now with this situation everything is more complex.
Fixéstedes actividades públicas coa comunidade?
A: There were some great moments, such as the Indiana Pilgrimage, which was more successful than we expected and, since the park's 125th anniversary, we have been giving guided tours to groups. We applied for the BIC in March 2017 and, in October 2018, there was a second landslide which closed the park and cut the flow of activities, at a time when we were reaching a lot of people. With the pandemic, we were forced to withdraw and stay at home, so we spent the time organising all the information we had and a sacar un libro coa historia do parque. Xa in February 2020 we get the BIC.
AP and MC: We are a socio-educational association and we are part of networks such as Rede do Rural, Vía Galega, Fundación Galiza Cultura, Rede polo Patrimonio Cultural or platforms such as Salvemos O Iribio, in the face of the wind energy offensive, in fact we organised a round table on this abuse, here you can watch the video of the day. And among the milestones, in addition to the trip to Ireland or the development of the powerful archive web, is the promotion of audiovisual production, through podcasts. In fact, Fran opened the recording room.
FRAN QUIROGA: Moito gosto da radio!
How did the opportunity to join Concomitentes present itself?
A: I knew Fran, our mediator, for other things and I remember the day he called me to tell me about it. I know that the project worked at international level, but I was always a bit pessimistic about its application in Betanzos. De feito, ata o día de hoxe, penso o mesmo, aínda que estou máis esperanzado. There is little institutional support, we depend on the council, because the park is municipal. We are taking steps, but it is very complicated. It is a work that can give added value to everything we have been doing over the years, and if it is well explained, we can have a good impact. As in the first activity we did with Concomitentes when people from MUSAC and people who talked about other related projects came. If half of what was said that day is done, I would be happy.
AP and MC: A partir dun rapaz chamado Panchi, ás veces Fran.
What is the concept of heritage and legacy for you?
A: There are many ways of approaching the Pasatempo, so the approach is also totally different. There are people who visit it as an open-air classroom, as a heritage resource, but it is a way of being able to unite the discourse left to us by the García Naveira brothers, who emigrated, made their fortune and decided to do all this in Betanzos, in addition to the park. Understanding the Pasatempo also allows us to understand what they did in Betanzos, which also links us to the rest of Europe at that time. The Pasatempo is a heritage resource, more cosmopolitan that allows us to access another public, a different type of heritage that differs from the traditional and unique in the world. It is something that makes us unique, which is why I believe that more and more people are beginning to value it, at least the young people, not the council or public officials.
AP and MC: Heritage is what past generations have passed on to us in many ways. We have a responsibility, we want to learn about and recognise the values of the past with a commitment to pass them on. But it is increasingly difficult, we are a country that suffered colonisation and the ravages of its past, its origins and its roots, and there is very little left in minimally adequate conditions. We live this with a certain urgency, we cannot delay in saving the little that is left. We are a disconnected and uneducated generation. It implies a double challenge: to save it and to pass it on.
How can art help us to care for and take responsibility for our roots?
A: Art may be what unites all the heritage of Betanzos with Pasatempo. The original park had 90,000 square metres and today there is only a seventh of what it was. One of the actions being considered is, in the part that has already disappeared, to do something that has nothing to do with the original Pasatempo, but to make people think about why it is there. Art would function as a doorway to the past or to what is below our feet and what we can no longer see.
AP and MC: That things can be done, independently of the artistic work that is done, just because of the link that is created between people. That's why the process is key, because art can collaborate by creating networks, by putting collaboration into practice.
This project brings together a large part of your community of neighbours, how was this process of collective exchange? What main conclusions would you draw?
A: The pandemic made everything more complex and made people disengage. The times when we organised activities such as the Viño do país or the conversa camiñada worked very well; but in such a small place it is difficult to keep people involved. To achieve what is intended in the lower part of the park, more mobilisation is needed, explaining more what you want to do. Even though it is published in the press, people don't understand what it is to make a work of art. With this awareness-raising work we try not to see the work as a “stuck-on annex”, but as another part of García Naveira's legacy, in this case, transmitted by the local people themselves.
AP and MC: The project gave us the opportunity to meet people like the Asociación de Amigos do Parque do Pasatiempo or the traditional music group Pesquedellas. In fact, thanks to the project, people met with whom we are promoting a node of the Rural Network in Betanzos. We need more meeting places, it can't be that we didn't know each other before. We have to be more united.
Once the project is finished, what would you like to see? How do you see the responsibility of taking care of the work?
A: O traballo do que se falou é facer una intervención nas aforas do Pasatempo, o que requirirá una atención futura que dependerá de nós e das administras, e no podemos poñer a mano non lume por estas persoas. I would like people to remember how the whole process was lived together, but above all to get people who, although they did not participate in the whole process, come down to the Pasatempo and know that this work is a community work and is part of the park. Tamén teremos que explicar por que estamos a favor de que se gasten cartos en facer unha obra de arte contemporánea, cuando o parque está en ruinas e no está aberto a xente.
AP and MC: That it be a perpetual work and that the way it is carried out, the spirit of collective management, should last. Often the maintenance of what you do is more important than the work itself. We will have to give life to the work and allow us to continue linked, so that the maintenance can maintain the bond between people. De feito, para min (AP) sería o significado profundo do proxecto, se fose algo puntual e non deixase pegada humana, social ou comunitaria, no tería sentido. Que os veciños sintan un vínculo co traballo e de aí sairá o compromiso de coidalo e o requisito de mantemento, se finalmente unha administración asume o traballo resultante.
